Person Page - 160

     Margaret Carminow was born in Cornwall. She was the second daughter and coheir by the second wife.. She was the daughter of Thomas Carminow and Jane Whalisborow.
Margaret Carminow married Simon Berkeley.

     Margaret Carminow married Hugh Courteney (of Boconnoc), son of Sir Hugh Courteney.

     Margaret or Joan Carminow married Sir John Petit, son of Michael Petit and unknown Hewis. Margaret or Joan Carminow was born in Cornwall. Margaret, daughter and co-heir of Thomas Carminow according to Vivian. But p.73 states that she was Johanna, 1st daughter and coheir by the second wife. She was the daughter of Thomas Carminow and Jane Whalisborow. Margaret or Joan Carminow was also known as Joan Carminow in records.

     Sir Oliver Carminow was the son of Sir John Carminow.
John Ravilious wrote: ... it would appear most likely that Joan, wife of Roger de Carminow and mother of (A) Oliver de Carminow and (B) Joan de Carminow, wife of William de Whalesborough, was a sibling of Sir Josce de Dinham (fl. ca. 1273-1300) and a daughter of Sir Oliver de Dinham of Hartland, Nutwell and Ilsington, Devon, Buckland Denham, Somerset and Cardinham, Cornwall (d. 26 Feb 1298/9). This would add a bit to the ancestry of the Carminow and Whalesborough families.
He was Chamberlain to Edward III.
Sir Oliver Carminow married Elizabeth Holland, daughter of Unknown Holland.

     Roger Carminow was the son of Sir Oliver Carminow and Elizabeth Holland.
Roger Carminow married Catherine Shirley.
     Roger died in 1308.

     Thomas Carminow was the son of Roger Carminow and Catherine Shirley.
Thomas Carminow married Jane Whalisborow, daughter of Unknown Whalisborow.
(Saturday St Peter's Chair, 2 Edw [II]); at Merthin - Agreement for assignment of dower. Oliver de Carmynou = (1), Lady Joan who was wife of Roger de Carmynou, knight = (2): Agreement between (1) and (2) for assignment of dower to (2) from the manors of Carmynou, Wynienton, Trezeued, Merthin, Kenel, Eglosros, Trelewith, Dysard, Resker and Hornicote, and the advowsons of the churches of Wyteston, Eglosros, Sanctus Rumon Maior and Sanctus Rumon Minor in Tyrhard.
(1) has assigned to (2) in name of dower the manors of Merthin and Wynienton, the whole land of Kenel, and £7 worth (librate) of land and rent in the manor of Eglosros, from the following tenements: of Trelong' £4 4s, vill of Trenustel 38s, tenement of John Boya in Penmene 10s, tenement of Alice de eadem 5s, tenement of John Batiz de Eglosros 2s, tenement of John Jacke de Eglosros 12d; for the advowsons of those churches he has assigned to her the advowson of the church of Eglosros with the advowson of the church of Eglosros [sic; read 'with appurtenances']. (2) shall hold all these of (1) during her life in name of dower.
Seal [of (2)? Good, showing arms of Carminow (a bend, without the label of three) and of Dinham (five lozenges); 'Sig... Carminno'].
Trezeued [= Tretheves, in Landewednack]
Trelewith [= Treloweth, in St Mewan]
Dysard [= Dizzard, St Gennys]
Resker [= Rosecare, in St Gennys]
Hornicate [= Hornacaott, in North Tamerton]
Wyteston [= Whitstone]
Eglosros [= Philleigh]
Sanctus Rumon Minor in Tyrhard [= Ruan Minor]
Carminno 1309 [seal]
Note on date: the clause is 'Die Sabbati in festo Beati Petri in Cathedra, anno regni Regis Edwardi secundo'; but 22nd Feb was not a Saturday in 1274, whereas it was so in 1309, so Edward II must be intended though not stated. In any case, Roger de Carminow died in 1308 (the writ for his Ipm. is dated 20th Dec 1308, and the inquisition 16th Jan 1309; [George] Oliver, [Monasticon Dioecesis Exoniensis] his son was then aged over 30). Joan de Carminow was still alive in 1321, Feet of Fines 467; W.Worcs saw her obit in Greyfriars, Bodmin, dated 1299 x 1329. The arms on the shield suggest that Joan was a Dinham by birth, which seems not to be otherwise known (though it is asserted, without authority, by J.P. Yeatman, The Early Genealogical History of the House of Arundell, p. 257b)."[1]



NOTES:
[1] PRO, Cornwall Record Office: Arundell of Lanherne and Trerice [AR/17 - AR/50], AR/35/1]
Note: the notation calling Oliver de Carminow "George Oliver, Monasticon Dioecesis Exoniensis" [bracketed above] is a recurrent transcription error in the Arundell files on the PRO.
[2] Ronny Bodine, , SGM, 25 Feb 1999:

"4. Sir WILLIAM de WALESBRAUS. Born c1288. In 1302 William Bottreux brought Writ of Wardship against Roger Carminow and demanded William, the brother and heir of John de Whalesboro. Roger replied "William whilst your ward married our daughter." Bottreux said, "William de Whalesboro was only 5 years old then, and under 14 now" (Year Book of Edward I, A.D. 1302). He was of age 21 Apr 1309 when Stephen de Bello Prato died holding a 3 acre meadow of William de Whalesbreus in socage and by service of rendering 1d. yearly (CIPM, 5: no. 122). On 11/13 Feb 1312, William de Whalesbrew granted to John de Carmynow the manor of Udnow and the advowson of the Church of St. Piran for the life of the said William (Trigg, 3: 51). Carminow presented to St. Perran-Uthno on 11 Dec 1312 (Reg. Bishop Stapledon, p. 257) and in Feb 1313 regranted the manor and advowson back to William de Whalesbury and Johanna his wife (Trigg, 3: 51). William presented to the church of St Mawgan-in-Kerrier on 25 Dec 1317 and 31 Oct 1324 (Reg. Bishop Stapledon, p. 255).
He died in 1328 and and is named by Risdon with his arms as "Willelmus Whalisburgh de Whalesburgh, knight, Gules, three bandlets argent on a bordure sable, nine bezants" (Notebook of Tristram Risdon, p. 211). As a child of 5, he was married c1293 to Joan (Johanna), daughter of Sir Roger de Carminow, who was Knight of the Shire for Cornwall in 1300 and 1302 and who died in 1308 leaving his son, Oliver, as his heir (Knights of Edward I, 1: 183).

     David Carnegie was born on 15 December 1795 in Arbroath, Angus. Registered as 18 Jan 1785!. He was the son of James Carnegie and Isobel Hill.

     David Gourlay Carnegie was born on 12 October 1823 in Arbroath, Angus, Scotland. He was the son of James Carnegie and Margaret Gourlay.

     George Carnegie was born on 26 July 1827 in Arbroath, Angus, Scotland. He was the son of James Carnegie and Margaret Gourlay.

     Gwendoline Ada Carnegie was born on 1 September 1905 in 'Kinnaird', Kew, Victoria. She was the eldest daughter of Walter & Ada Carnegie. She was the daughter of Walter Howard Carnegie and Ada Edgerton.
Gwendoline Ada Carnegie married Frederick Sheppard Grimwade, son of Dr Alfred Sheppard Grimwade and Amy Gertrude Tanner, on 30 October 1928 in Victoria. They had 8 grandchildren and as of 2004 15 great grandchildren. Gwendoline Ada Carnegie graduated in 1929 from Melbourne University, Victoria, with a Bachelor of Arts. She was a non-resident of Ormond College.
     Gwendoline resided at 13 Struan St, Toorak, Victoria.
     Gwendoline died on 17 October 2004 in Victoria aged 99.

     Jabez Bunting Carnegie was born on 6 September 1831 in Arbroath, Angus, Scotland. He was the son of James Carnegie and Margaret Gourlay.
Jabez Bunting Carnegie married Eliza Lambert in 1860 in Victoria.
     Jabez died in 1892 in Kew, Victoria.

     James Carnegie was born on 30 November 1796 in Arbroath, Angus, Scotland. Registered as 1 Dec 1796. He was the son of James Carnegie and Isobel Hill.
James Carnegie married Margaret Gourlay on 28 April 1821 in Polmont, Stirlingshire, Scotland. She was called Clark at her son 's death.
     James died in 1865?.

     James Carnegie was born on 2 November 1771?.
James Carnegie married Isobel Hill in 1792? In Inverkeilor, Angus, Scotland.
     James died in 1796?.

     James Clark Carnegie was born on 5 February 1824 in Arbroath, Angus, Scotland. Registered as 19 Feb 1824. He was the son of James Carnegie and Margaret Gourlay.
James Clark Carnegie married Mary Ann Bland on 29 October 1850 in St Botolph Bishopsgate, London, England. They were both single, aged 25 and 21, he was a pianoforte maker, son of James Carnegie, merchant; she was the daughter of William Balnd, tailor. They married by licence in the presence of William & Elizabeth Bland.
     James died in 1891 in Collingwood, Victoria.

     Jane Carnegie married Donaldson Riddell, son of Donaldson Riddell and Margaret Renny, on 26 August 1841 in Old Machar, Aberdeenshire.
     Jane Carnegie and Donaldson Riddell were recorded on the 1861 census in 75 John St, Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire. Donaldson Riddel, head, 51, watchmaker, born Od Machar, wife Jane 55, born Dunnottar, Kincardineshire with Mary Law, boarder aged 57, fundholder..
     Jane died in 1874 in Aberdeen, St Nicholas district, Aberdeenshire.

     Lemuel Carnegie was born on 2 December 1825 in Arbroath, Angus, Scotland. He was the son of James Carnegie and Margaret Gourlay.

     Margaret Clark Carnegie was born on 21 December 1821 in Arbroath, Angus, Scotland. She was the daughter of James Carnegie and Margaret Gourlay.

     Thomas Carnegie was born on 17 May 1793 in Arbroath, Angus. Registered as 18 May 1793. He was the son of James Carnegie and Isobel Hill.

     Walter Howard Carnegie was born in 1878 in Melbourne, Victoria. He was the son of Jabez Bunting Carnegie and Eliza Lambert.
Walter Howard Carnegie married Ada Edgerton in 1901 in Victoria.

     John Carnelle married Elizabeth Dempster, daughter of William Dempster and Mary Martin, on 7 October 1911 in Flowers Cove, Newfoundland, Canada.

     Ann Teresa Carney was born in 1878 in Paddington, New South Wales.
Ann Teresa Carney married Horace Hawkins Dempster, son of Richard Alfred Dempster and Louisa MacKenzie, on 26 November 1901 in Glebe district, New South Wales.
     Ann and Horace were registered as Horace Dempster, metal presser & Annie Theresa, home duties at 16 Mandemar Ave, Flemington, New South Wales, on the 1930 electoral roll.
     Ann died on 9 July 1946 in Lewisham, New South Wales. She was buried on 9 July 1946 in Rookwood cemetery, Sydney.

     Mary Carney married Edmond Colbert before 1839.

     Emma Mary Carnie was born in 1854 in Scotland.
     Emma resided at Bayswater, London, England, February 1874.
Emma Mary Carnie married John Alexander Handy, son of Samuel Handy and Anna Townsend, on 17 February 1874 in St Peter's, Bayswater, London. February 17 1874, John Alexander Handy of full age, bachelor, stock broker, of New Brighton, Cheshire, son of Saml Handy, gentleman to Emma Mary Carnie, 19, spinster, of 21 Dawson Place, Bayswater, daughter of Chas Carnie, merchant, married in the parish church by licence, signed in the presence of C Carnie and C W... & C J T Handy.
     Emma Mary Carnie and John Alexander Handy were recorded on the 1881 census in 11 Abbotsford Rd, Great Crosby, Lancashire. John A Handy, head, married aged 43, Member of the Liverpool Stock Exchange, born Ireland; Emma A Handy, wife, aged 27, born Scotland; John F Handy, 6, scholar, born New Brighton, Cheshire; Fanny A Handy, daugher 4, scholar, born Gt Crosby; Norah E Handy, 3, scholar, born Gt Crosby; Edgar C Handy son, 1, born Gt Crosby, with Hessie Falloon, visitor aged 29 born Liverpool, and three servants.
     Emma died in 1915.

     Elizabeth Carpenter was christened on 21 April 1782 in Abbotskerswell, Devon. She was the daughter of Richard Carpenter and Grace Rowe.
Elizabeth Carpenter married John Ruby, son of William Ruby and Mary Rendle, on 21 September 1810 in Abbotskerswell, Devon. He was a sojourner of this parish at their marriage which was witnessed by William Taylor & Richard Carpenter.
     Elizabeth Carpenter and John Ruby were recorded on the 1841 census in Abbotskerswell. John Ruby, farmer, aged 53 with Elizabeth, 58 & Elizabeth 21 & Susan 15.
     Elizabeth Carpenter and John Ruby were recorded on the 1851 census in Abbotskerswell. John Ruby, 63, farmer of 36 (or 6?) acres, employing 2 labourers, born Widdicombe, & Elizabeth his wife, 68, born Abbotskerswell.
     Elizabeth died before 25 March 1860 in Abbotskerswell, Devon. She was buried on 25 March 1860 in Abbotskerswell.

     Harriet Carpenter (Maitland) was born between 1817 and 1818 in Devon. The IGI gives: Harriet Carpenter christened Shillingford St George (just outside Exeter) 27/9/1812, parents John & Elizabeth Carpenter: PR shows: twins, James & Harriet, born 8th September @ Lower Shillingford. This is the only suitable individual shown in the Exeter area, but there is an age discrepancy: was this the right one and was she understating her age later in life (she might have understated her age to her otherwise younger 2nd husband)? If born 1818, she would only have been just 18 at the christening of son Francis Maitland. Note that husband Francis only returned from sea 6/9/36. Francis 3 also shown born Liverpool in Census 51, but when is not known, but probably between Spring 1836 (age at census) and September 1836. She was described as "of Exeter" in Francis's will.
Harriet Carpenter (Maitland) married Peter Augustus Halahan, son of James Halahan, on 17 July 1847 in St John the Evangelist, Waterloo, Surrey. He was a bachelor & teacher, she was a widow, residence Waterloo Rd, witnessed by James Green & Robert Brown. His father was James Halahan, farmer, Her father: John Carpenter, farmer.
     Harriet died on 28 December 1867 in 407 Fulham Rd, Chelsea, London. Died age 49 (no will or admon). Wife of Peter Augustus Halahan, a house proprietor, cause: Hepatitis 3 months and Typhus 2 weeks. J. Halahan present at death, 407, Fulham Rd, Chelsea.

     John Carpenter was christened on 14 December 1788 in Abbotskerswell, Devon. He was the son of Richard Carpenter and Grace Rowe.

     John Carpenter was born in 1866? In Dublin North RD, Dublin, Ireland. He was the son of Samuel Bell Carpenter and Cecilia Dunbar.

     Mary Carpenter was christened on 13 December 1774 in Abbotskerswell, Devon. She was the daughter of Richard Carpenter and Elizabeth Frost.

     Maryann Sophia Carpenter was born in 1891 in Stanton, Suffolk.
     Maryann Sophia Carpenter married Oliver Bland as his second wife, on 19 December 1934 in Stanton All Saints, Suffolk. Oliver Bland 45 widower, Painter of Duke St, father Robert Bland, shoemaker & Maryann Sophia Carpenter 43, spinster Stanton Hall Cottages, father John Carpenter, ag. lab. Witnesses Ivy Doris Bland, John Carpenter.

     Richard Carpenter was born circa 1748 in Devon, England. A Richard Carpenter was baptised 12 March 1748 at Dean Prior, son of Richard & Florance. He was not baptised at Abbotskerswell. Also a Richard baptised at Tiverton 25 Dec 1847., son of Richard & Margaret..
Richard Carpenter married Elizabeth Frost on 15 April 1773 in Abbotskerswell, Devon. His first marriage was witnessed by John Bulley and Samuel Taylor.. Richard was present at Mary Carpenter's christening on 13 December 1774 in Abbotskerswell, Devon. Richard Carpenter was widowed on 25 January 1778 in Abbotskerswell, Devon, England, on the death of his wife Elizabeth Frost.
Richard Carpenter married secondly Grace Rowe on 21 September 1778 in Abbotskerswell, Devon. They were both of this parish. The witnesses were James Bennetts & Richard Perryman. Richard Carpenter was listed on the in Abbotskerswell, Devon, Churchwarden's Accounts from 1793 to 1823. The Overseers accounts show: Feb 11 1793 Paid Richard Carpenter for Petters loging (sic) 1/-, (paid regularly) : Aug 1823 Richard Carpenter, paid 7/- per month earlier 8/-.
     Richard was buried on 17 February 1824 in Abbotskerswell, Devon. He was listed on the in Abbotskerswell, Devon, Churchwarden's Accounts in March 1824. In the Overseer's accounts for February 1824 paid 5/3 3 weeks; March 1824 - Mary Maddoch ? - staying up by Richard Carpenter 10 days & night 10/-, laying forth 1/-, soap & candles 1/8, wood & washing 9 1/2, bread & beer & washers 6d, making up grave 2/-, beer for the carpenter 2 1/2d, shroud 5/-, coffin 12/-. for his funeral expenses etc.